This is Beyond Mere Incompetence (w/ Robert Kagan) | The Bulwark Podcast

The pro-Iran war hawks keep crowing about how U.S. military prowess is supposedly striking fear in Beijing and Moscow. But what’s really happening is that Trump is doing exactly what China and Russia hoped he’d do. Beijing has wanted the U.S. out of the Western Pacific and Putin, of course, wants NATO wrecked. Our major allies are scrambling to form new economic and military relationships, and America is likely to be very lonely in the world with only a few stooges to count as friends. This is what ending our role as a global superpower would look like. Plus, the U.S. is unable to win the war at a cost that is acceptable to Americans, Trump is taking a cue from Putin by bombing civilian infrastructure, and blaming NATO for not being willing to fight for the Strait of Hormuz is absurd when the world’s most powerful navy doesn't seem to want to do it either. Bob Kagan joins Tim Miller for the holiday weekend pod. Show Notes: Bob's recent piece in The Atlantic: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/2026/03/trump-us-power-iran/686567/?gift=AO0MhSsTDaHgiP_RxFGfB0EzmtbsRYEOriBsyZJ4KIk&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share Tim's bimbofied livestream: https://www.youtube.com/live/GMluDgu55h0?si=AiJJOo4-kC8zJgBA "Foreign Policy" piece on South Korea that Bob referenced: https://foreignpolicy.com/2026/04/02/south-korea-iran-trump-war-james-laney-thaad/ Follow "Bulwark Takes" for breaking news over the weekend: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJNKzTkCZE9uaKfaz27yuWgFe1XnP19WL Tim's playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/0dApY6YT48kTh6j9xFDQch Chapters: 00:00:40 Debating Trump’s Iran Strategy 00:04:16 Limits Of Air Power In War 00:07:13 F-15 Downed And War Escalation 00:09:30 Civilian Targets And War Crimes Debate 00:12:51 Massive War Spending Proposal 00:15:08 America As A Rogue Superpower 00:19:06 Why The U.S. Was In The Middle East 00:23:14 Contradictions In Trump’s Strategy 00:28:49 China, Taiwan, And Military Risks 00:33:01 Asia Fallout And Global Alliances Shifting 00:40:10 NATO Fractures And Republican Shift 00:52:31 Is NATO Already Dead? 00:56:14 Nuclear Risk And Global Instability Become a Bulwark Youtube Plus Member here - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCG4Hp1KbGw4e02N7FpPXDgQ/join