Grimes, Matt Zien & Ben Relles at Artist and the Machine

Grimes and Matt Zien (KNGMKR) talk about “The Tutorial”, ethics, and philosophy for artists grappling with AI. Live at Artist and The Machine in LA. Moderated by Ben Relles. Recorded November 19, 2025 at the AI & Creativity Summit, Los Angeles. 0:00 - Introduction & The Tutorial Trailer 3:21 - Panel Begins: Grimes & Matt Zen Take the Stage 4:09 - Origin Story: From Coachella Disaster to Documentary 6:06 - Why We Film Everything: Philosophy Meets Process 7:03 - The AI Dancers Debate: Ethics in Real-Time 8:50 - Why Artists Need Philosophy Now 11:03 - "This Was Harder Than Shooting" 12:22 - What Should Remain Human? 13:58 - The Paradox Method: Pushing AI to Its Edges 16:18 - The Meaning Economy: Content vs. Art 18:54 - Grimes on Protecting Kids from Dopamine Burnout 21:29 - "Forgive the Haters": Understanding the Backlash 26:43 - When the Machine Surprises You 28:06 - Post Scarcity Blues: "Will I Matter Anymore?" 31:03 - Open-Sourcing Grimes's Voice: Lessons Learned 34:11 - The Future of Interactive Storytelling 36:27 - What's Next: The Vid2Vid Studio & Cobrah Collaboration 38:26 - Learning from Crypto: Avoiding the AI Hype Trap 40:07 - Closing Thoughts Matt Zien - @kngmkrlabs The Tutorial - @TheTutorial-Series Artist and the Machine - @ArtistandtheMachine